Posted by DURIANRIDER on January 15, 2009 at 10:42am
i dropped 22lbs from high fat gourmet raw to no salt, oil, seaweed, superfoods, powders etc ie :hardline 811. ive seen EVERYONE drop excess on 811 and build fitness. its hard to build muscle and fitness when ones diet is starved of carbs.im not concerned that people want to eat gourmet, but rather im concerned that people think gourmet is natures design. its called gourmet 'hollywood raw' for a reason.people try 'the raw vegan thing' and long term is not good cos high fat diets with toxic irritants like salt, cacao, chili etc just dont provide the nourishment for humans as we need diets that are extremely high in carbs. so we have people running into ketosis issues and basically doing a raw vegan version of atkins and then falling off the wagon and blaming veganism, blaming raw. but its just that they didnt do it right.i can ride my bike on the other side of the road and get run over and then say 'oh that cycling thing is very dangerous!' or i can ride on the right side of the road and ride with lance and co..lol!its the same in the raw world. i consult with crew on a daily basis now and they say 'oh i tried that raw thing and i felt great at the start but then....' and im like 'champ, you ate some recipie book lifestyle gimmick fad, infomercial superfood alchemy hype masters plan of what sells the best' rather than seeking mother nature as your guidance. you DIDNT DO RAW RIGHT! and now your blam'n mother nature? popp'n protein powders and eating poor animals cos you 'need more protein' and all because you put yourself on a FAILURE TO THRIVE raw diet and starved yourself calorically whilst stimulating yourself with toxic irritants and flushes, colonics etc that gave us the adrenal spike ie: feelings that we were getting some benefits.
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it feels that way. and it feels like whenever we stick our beaks out of our nest, we get slammed back, called "bullies" and such, and no one ever gets called up for taking a hard line against us - this other person didn't get in trouble for saying we were cult-like, which to me is a rather mean thing to say. and what I keep coming back to is that line, "I don't want a person in good health telling me what to eat..." my goodness, do you want a person in bad health telling you what to eat? where's the logic in that?
I'm inspired by people who are achieving great things with their health and fitness, and who are doing so against all odds, and against all the advice from the mainstream, who are taking the big chances and going with their body's logic and winning. I'm interested in talking with people who are willing to listen and try.
Just reading through this thread, and wanted to add:
I posted a thread on another forum which was simply inviting people to consider the possibility that candida could be dealt with through a high-fruit, low-fat diet, without using the 80-10-10 terms. I explained my position very clearly, very kindly, and encouraged questions and discussion. this was a response I got:
"i understand the 811 passion but i really find that it's very harmful to see any diet as panacea! as a person who struggles with their health on a daily basis, it is really frustrating to have people who are in good health and have been in good health tell me what to do with my diet. i trust the doctors who i know and have met in person. and that the majority of the vegan doctors/naturopaths agree that low-glycemic is best for candida and some fats are good for you. i don't get how one doctor (of natural hygiene, not of medicine) can transfix so many people. it's very cult-like. in fact is is very hard to get medical-like advice in some raw sites because it's been overrun with 811ers telling people to eat fruit. This is quite dangerous for certain people with health concerns to do. (and what's worse, their symptoms would be explained as detox) And also in the long run because our bodies need fats. Dr graham telling people to not worry if they have iron deficiency? when I heard that I wanted to say F--- you because he would rather have me faint and get hospitalized and die than eat iron-rich foods and supplements. thank the lord I didn't listen to him. or I might not be here today. I understand the THEORIES behind low fat, but the fact is all the scientific evidence shows that people need EFAs and DHAs which are in fats. I personally have been visiting other forums (not RawFu, goneraw or giveittomeraw) which are focused on health and healing and raw food and the consensus is that fruit is NOT helpful for some people and can FEED cancer. so, please, please be careful and listen to someone with experience such as your naturopath rather than a passionate person in a forum."
so there you go. that's how kindly positioned 811 is regarded - that we're in a cult, that Doug would rather put someone in a hospital, and that science and the mainstream has all the answers.
wow. what else can i say, but wow. i get this kind of response all the time. you need salt. you need fat. you need more protein. i've never felt nor looked better than i do now, and i'm getting better every day as i get closer to my perfect weight and become more active.
such a shame people are so committed to believing the information they've been force fed all these years by media, mainstream doctors, usda/rda, etc.
actually, this intelligent and informative thread, which has been greatly appreciated by many people and has given several people pause to think and comment positively, has been given a "you damn 811 people! take it back to your own group!!" cease-and-desist by the moderator. I don't know why.
we can do starvation camp skinny fasts, we can pump water up our butts, we can eat more nuts than a chipmunk, we can recreate dominos pizza raw style, we can dance to our dosha gods..but if we keep doing what we are doing, we will keep getting what we are getting!..
for those that havent, grab a copy of 811 and a shelton book on food combining and join the ranks of those flat stomach 811 glucose maniacs kick'n raw ass worldwide with bananas in hand!
salt is number one reason for bloating. SALT = WATER RETENTION! the bodies solution to pollution is dillution! samurai's used salt to commit suicide. we pat ourselves on the back for dehydrated seawater and eating the rocks.
if we get stranded and drink seawater? do we get healthier or sicker? EXACTLY! we cannot 'cleanse' with a poison. we are not a window needing windex. we are a living organism needing certain parameters to maintain and attain health. lets give our body what it needs.
oh totally!!! when i first started raw, i was a very healthy cooked vegan. low fat, lots of fruits and veggies, minimal processed vegan shtuff. when i went high-fat raw - OY!! i'd say my low fat cooked diet was way better! i never ate pizza, cookies, and other junk but very rarely before going raw - so why would i want to "replace" all that junk with their raw analogs? low fat raw just totally makes sense to me. when i can pack my meals for the day in 2 seconds, that ought to say something about how beautiful 811 is.
I am a teacher and I can tell you from experience that kind of talking style does not work. If you want to be heard then you must take a different approach, otherwise it's just venting.
so this photo is taken by a shop in thailand. i suspect they photoshopped the softness of my skin and the blue in the background :). one photo is on 100% raw vegan with gourmet gobbles and one photo is 100% raw vegan with no gobbling of salt, oil, seaweed, fermented foods, vinegar, powders etc.
i still eat out at raw resturants..but my idea of a raw resturant is the famers market, local orchard, organic shop etc.
resturants serving organic raw vegan pizza's etc serve a purpose and im glad i tried that stuff. but i just never got told that fruits and veg were better..or perhaps i never took the responsibility to find out..
these days i see food as fuel and nourishment rather than entertainment and a place to go get feelings from..
Replies
I'm inspired by people who are achieving great things with their health and fitness, and who are doing so against all odds, and against all the advice from the mainstream, who are taking the big chances and going with their body's logic and winning. I'm interested in talking with people who are willing to listen and try.
I posted a thread on another forum which was simply inviting people to consider the possibility that candida could be dealt with through a high-fruit, low-fat diet, without using the 80-10-10 terms. I explained my position very clearly, very kindly, and encouraged questions and discussion. this was a response I got:
"i understand the 811 passion but i really find that it's very harmful to see any diet as panacea! as a person who struggles with their health on a daily basis, it is really frustrating to have people who are in good health and have been in good health tell me what to do with my diet. i trust the doctors who i know and have met in person. and that the majority of the vegan doctors/naturopaths agree that low-glycemic is best for candida and some fats are good for you. i don't get how one doctor (of natural hygiene, not of medicine) can transfix so many people. it's very cult-like. in fact is is very hard to get medical-like advice in some raw sites because it's been overrun with 811ers telling people to eat fruit. This is quite dangerous for certain people with health concerns to do. (and what's worse, their symptoms would be explained as detox) And also in the long run because our bodies need fats. Dr graham telling people to not worry if they have iron deficiency? when I heard that I wanted to say F--- you because he would rather have me faint and get hospitalized and die than eat iron-rich foods and supplements. thank the lord I didn't listen to him. or I might not be here today. I understand the THEORIES behind low fat, but the fact is all the scientific evidence shows that people need EFAs and DHAs which are in fats. I personally have been visiting other forums (not RawFu, goneraw or giveittomeraw) which are focused on health and healing and raw food and the consensus is that fruit is NOT helpful for some people and can FEED cancer. so, please, please be careful and listen to someone with experience such as your naturopath rather than a passionate person in a forum."
so there you go. that's how kindly positioned 811 is regarded - that we're in a cult, that Doug would rather put someone in a hospital, and that science and the mainstream has all the answers.
such a shame people are so committed to believing the information they've been force fed all these years by media, mainstream doctors, usda/rda, etc.
sigh.
I guess we'll just have to get used it.
actually, this intelligent and informative thread, which has been greatly appreciated by many people and has given several people pause to think and comment positively, has been given a "you damn 811 people! take it back to your own group!!" cease-and-desist by the moderator. I don't know why.
for those that havent, grab a copy of 811 and a shelton book on food combining and join the ranks of those flat stomach 811 glucose maniacs kick'n raw ass worldwide with bananas in hand!
salt is number one reason for bloating. SALT = WATER RETENTION! the bodies solution to pollution is dillution! samurai's used salt to commit suicide. we pat ourselves on the back for dehydrated seawater and eating the rocks.
if we get stranded and drink seawater? do we get healthier or sicker? EXACTLY! we cannot 'cleanse' with a poison. we are not a window needing windex. we are a living organism needing certain parameters to maintain and attain health. lets give our body what it needs.
we either get educated or we get medicated.. :)
so this photo is taken by a shop in thailand. i suspect they photoshopped the softness of my skin and the blue in the background :). one photo is on 100% raw vegan with gourmet gobbles and one photo is 100% raw vegan with no gobbling of salt, oil, seaweed, fermented foods, vinegar, powders etc.
resturants serving organic raw vegan pizza's etc serve a purpose and im glad i tried that stuff. but i just never got told that fruits and veg were better..or perhaps i never took the responsibility to find out..
these days i see food as fuel and nourishment rather than entertainment and a place to go get feelings from..
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