ask any questions related to moving from urban areas (cities) to nature/earth/country side (suitable human habitat).
topics such as but not limited to, finances, gardening, forestry, safety, business, builidng, attitude, natural resources, locations, etc.
you might want to know how much land is needed to support a familys food needs, what to consider when building a small house yourself and how to receive money without working in the city.
Replies
Hello Snowpea! :) I am wondering if you and Freelee found it difficult to move to Ecuador. Was it a hard process moving to a different country? When will you become permanent residents? :D
Hi Amy,
We never settled in Ecuador due to various reasons and we have a food forest in Tropical Australia now.
At the time we where in Ecuador it was easy to get permanent recidency and it's a fast process. If you want to become a citizen that takes years.
It was not hard for us to leave with the intention of residing in Ecuador as before we left we lived simple with little fixed property and our motivation to live in a tropical paradise where strong.
Integrating with another culture can be challengeing but if you settle on a big pice of land you are in less need of that since you will spend most time on your land. It's easy to learn spanish and once you get the language you will most likely be accepted by locals to a acceptable and comfortable extent. It's alawys good to travel before deciding on residing in another county, get a feel for it. And if you travel to many cultures you can see which one you can live in the best and what cliamate you like.
I am 19 years old but aspire to move to the food forest in the future. How much would you say it costs to get there, buy land etc?
"I am 19 years old but aspire to move to the food forest in the future. How much would you say it costs to get there, buy land etc?"
Rural land cost less per acre compared to central city or suburban land, a rule of thumb would be in any given area it will cost less the further away from a city centre. There's exceptions though becuase sometimes on the beach or other spots price increase again.
Except for the cost of the price for the land there will be soloicitor fees and probobly some levis/fees or duties. Shouldn't be more then a couple % of the purchase price also factor in yearly taxes and fees that might be billed to you by the gov etc (hard to avoid those), that's another couple percent yearly.
Price for land varies alot depending on area and country so you will have to browser real estate websites yourself and see what land cost on avarage per acre or hectare where you would like to settle.
In most climates you will be able to plant out and harvest enough food for yourself and a family (4 humans) on 1 acre. Have seen people do it on 1/4 acre also but then there's not much space left for a little forest reserve etc. It will take time to gain the expereinace that let's you feed yourself so see it as a long term goal to feed/house yourself. Land with a natural watersource is prefered, could increase the price but not always.
If the land is vacant (no house) then you'll obviously want a house but in the beginning you can live in a "house" on wheels as this would be low cost and fast to setup, make sure you setup sanitary facilities such as composting toilets, gray water irrigation etc, and keep it clean and hygenic (this way neghbours and gov shouldn't bother you trying to live more natural).
The temporary "house/shelter" let's you save up more resources for a permanent house in the future and you will get a feel for the land and if for some reason you hate it there you can sell it with not much effort, it's a big thing to build a house either by yourself or with help by builders so good to know you love the area and the land first.
By not building a fancy house in the beginning you will also be able to completely not take a loan or reduce the loan, loans are very expensive and many times the homeowner ends up paying the land price twice over beaucse of the interet cost of the loan so it's better to save up resources yourself. A loan of $50 000 could end up costing you $100 000 over 25 years. So finacially it does not make sense to take a loan. Some people think the value will increase and they can re-sell the land for a profit even with the high loan cost, that's gambling becuase the value could decrese also and where not talking about fincanial trading etc here, just a home for living in.
As an example I can find a land lot of 1 hectare (2,5 acre) for A$150,000. (A$ Australian dollar) That's more land then needed and this one have road and a cleard area. Try and find already cleard lots ans we don't unneccesary want to cut more tree's whene there's so many lot's that's cleard already. The onetime solicitor fees and duties would be like A$5000 and there would be fees of around A$2000 per year depeing on your legal setup.
Let's say we have 1 acre, 155 000/2,5= A$62 000 initial price inc fees for 1 acre lot and this is a realisitc sum. If someone earn's $62 000 per year and saves 10% yearly it will take you 10 years to be able to afford the land so this is realistic to. And if youre in a relation with someone then this could probobly be achived in 5 years (due to more earned money). One can also calculate the rental cost where they are living now and then compare that to the price of a loan, and maybe the loan isn't that much more expensive and this would financially let you borrow the money and pay interest instead of paying someone rental money.
Once youre setup the yearly costs will be low and you will get away with very little time spent on earning money (compared to city life).
Be excited and take one small step at a time, you can do it :D
Thank you for this detailed answer! When I graduate I will be earning around £25,000 a year (I live in the UK) which will increase by around £3,000 yearly. I also already have a fair amount. I'm lucky to live in Wales where the student loan isn't really a loan to pay back, but a small monthly tax based on how much I earn. If I earn less than £25,000 for 30 years then I won't have to pay back a penny.
Are there any frugivore communities? It might get lonely.
Great, you have a plan set forth for your finances!
Thanks for sharing the student loan system in Wales, I guess that's better then paying tax of income and also have to ammortize the loan at the same time as in Sweden.
I don't know of any communities, but I think there's some food forest or forest garden places. If you collect the many verieties of perennial temparate fruit tree's and have a small glass green house you could have plenty of food year around since you can store many fruits, roots and leafs for a long time in the temperate climate. Some kales and collards can still be harvestable under the snow :D There's a reason why wild animals don't die in winter.
The method of the Back to Eden garden by Paul Gautchi might be interesting for you. There's youtube videos.
Does anyone knows some good places in europe? I am wondering if there are places that are nearly tropical
"Does anyone knows some good places in europe? I am wondering if there are places that are nearly tropical"
Sicilly, teneriffe, gibraltar, greece, cyprus, spain, portugal, malta there's so there's som areas where you can grow many tropical fruits like mango. You won't be able to grow durian, mangosteen etc, that's closer to the equator as you probobly know.
Don't know what reainfall is in those areas but there will be many tree's that will tollerate the climate there or areas with higher fainfall and more even distribution (shorter dry periods). And for sure you will be able to grow dates, amazing indeed!
Look up "All the Fruit" on youtube, he's been a lot around that area and you will get a feel for what grows well around there.
Hi Snowpea :D My question is what are the best fruit trees for quickest harvest times? I have lots of established trees such as jackfruit, guava and mango but have plenty of room for more and want to plant it all up... :D
"My question is what are the best fruit trees for quickest harvest times?"
Great that you want even more diversity!
Peanut butter fruit - bunchosia, 2yrs
Panama berry - muntigia, 2yrs
grumichama - eugenia brasiliensis, 4 yrs
There is also many more grumichama type of fruit trees that will produce fast and stay small.
figs - ficus carica, 1 yr if from cutting (first fruits not the best, 2nd year better)
mullberry - morus nigra, 1 yr if from cutting
inca berry - less then one year and short lived perenial
tomatillo verde - less then one year and short lived perenial
curry tree - 2-3 yrs (delicious fruit)
sugar apple - annona reticulata 3 years
garcinia brasilliensis - 3-4 yrs. (good with more then one tree for pollination)
inga edulis - 4 yrs (good with more then one tree for pollination)
fijian longa - pommetia pinnata, 4 yrs.
This is what I can come up with now, these are tree's we have and time is from when the seed was sown or cutting put in ground, not when the plant was planted in the ground :D
Maybe someone can add some more :)
Champedak should fruit early too, but it's a lot more sensitive then jackfruit in our experiance.
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