Posted by kt on June 4, 2010 at 12:20am in Main Chat
I had a blood test and my UREA is low and my doctor wants to ring me to discuss it. I don't know the science behind it but I saw on Durianrider's blood test video that he was low in it too. Can anyone tell me why this is?
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I just found this thread because I went for a B12 test last week and just phoned up for the results. As I suspected my B12 is low and so they want a retest (I've had no supplements or fortified foods for several years so no reliable source of B12, hence why I booked the test). They tested for a few other things too and I just spoke with the nurse on the phone who said that everything's normal but kidney function is outside the normal range and they'll want to look into that. Cue a little googling and I found this thread! I suspect I'll be told that urea is low, and if so I suspect I'll probably have to educate my poor obese doctor! I'm glad I have google and I'm glad I have this thread to let me know that rather than there being anything to worry about, this is actually a really good thing. Just need to get the B12 sorted now..... is it better to take an oral B12 supplement first in order to see whether the intrinsic factor is working properly? If so does it matter whether it's a pill or a liquid, or whether it's methyl or cyano cobalamin? Any thoughts? Thanks, Alan
PS - as an aside, a testament to high carb low fat vegan diet and to the unfitness of the average person, I came 2nd in my local parkrun this weekend despite being B12 deficient, despite having not run fast for over a year, despite only having done 2 runs of more than a few hundred yards this year (2 slow 8 milers last month), despite a late night the night before and despite running in barefoot socks. HCLF vegan really does work! And I didn't ache at all afterwards. This was my first parkrun since dropping the oil and going fully vegan last July.
low urea is what we want. I was talking with a kidney transplant patient last night and they said 'I wish I had your urea and urate levels..' I said 'Why wish when you can go vegan?'. :)
deamination (breakdown of excess protein so it can be used as fuel/eliminated) produces ammonia as a by-product which is toxic to the body. the body converts the ammonia into urea which is less toxic so it can be eliminated via the kidneys. the 'normal' range for urea levels is based on a population consuming too much protein i.e. dead animals and moo juice. so vegan low fat/low protein diets = low urea diet. which is usually a good thing. :)
Urea/"BUN" is a secondary or indirect measure of protein levels; it effectively is a measure of a toxic by-product from protein metabolism.
Your albumin or total serum protein levels are the primary or direct measures of protein levels, and quite frankly are the only numbers that count in terms of determining whether your protein levels are adequate. If these are within the normal range, then you are fine. In fact, low urea with normal protein levels is really the ideal.
The reason why urea/BUN is even measured is usually to check that it isn't too high, or as a secondary confirmation of low protein levels.
I think that Doctors, even though they may not want to agree, would at least be aware vegans are lower. Must still be a reason he needs to discuss it I would imagine though. One thing I have learned, is if your doctor has different views than you, it's pretty much pointless to try and change their minds. A lot of times mention you are a raw foodist and get the raised eyebrow, warning signals of danger, danger, Lol
I'd hope the doctor would know that, most of them think that vegan diets are inherently deficient in protein/EFAs/iron whatever. If it's really low it could be a cause for concern, there'd usually be other indicators as well. so if low urea is the only issue and it's not abnormally low for a vegan I personally wouldn't pay too much heed to what the doctor said about it after that point.
and yes, i'd avoid even telling the doc that you're vegan unless you can avoid doing it for the reason mentioned above. however well intentioned they are the tendency is for them to try to scare you into adding more quality 'protein' to your diet.
Thanks for the responses I agree with you B it can be difficult to explain to some doctors who think you are malnourished by not eating 'enough' protein!
I had to get a new doctor, and I had my first appointment with her the other day. I told her I was lfrv and she didn't bat an eye! She was totaly ok with it! She told me to take calcium, b12 and vitamin D supplements and that was it! I was totaly impressed!
wow a diamond in the rough. calcium supplements shouldn't be necessary, in fact they interfere with iron absorption. Your doc might be thinking that women your age need 1500+ mg/day for their bones. John McDougall has mentioned a number of times (including in harley's new vid) that dietary calcium deficiency is virtually unheard of among people on plant based diets in the medical/scientific literature, and if you're not consuming anti-nutrients and excess calcium from milk and other animal foods the calcium is in your bones to stay. If you're getting ~500mg/day which isn't hard if you get some variety in your diet, and you can track this in cronometer, you should be more than fine. Some cultures consume only a couple hundred mg/day and show no signs of osteoporosis. Other than that your doc is a keeper no question! :)
Replies
I just found this thread because I went for a B12 test last week and just phoned up for the results. As I suspected my B12 is low and so they want a retest (I've had no supplements or fortified foods for several years so no reliable source of B12, hence why I booked the test). They tested for a few other things too and I just spoke with the nurse on the phone who said that everything's normal but kidney function is outside the normal range and they'll want to look into that. Cue a little googling and I found this thread! I suspect I'll be told that urea is low, and if so I suspect I'll probably have to educate my poor obese doctor! I'm glad I have google and I'm glad I have this thread to let me know that rather than there being anything to worry about, this is actually a really good thing. Just need to get the B12 sorted now..... is it better to take an oral B12 supplement first in order to see whether the intrinsic factor is working properly? If so does it matter whether it's a pill or a liquid, or whether it's methyl or cyano cobalamin? Any thoughts? Thanks, Alan
PS - as an aside, a testament to high carb low fat vegan diet and to the unfitness of the average person, I came 2nd in my local parkrun this weekend despite being B12 deficient, despite having not run fast for over a year, despite only having done 2 runs of more than a few hundred yards this year (2 slow 8 milers last month), despite a late night the night before and despite running in barefoot socks. HCLF vegan really does work! And I didn't ache at all afterwards. This was my first parkrun since dropping the oil and going fully vegan last July.
Low urea and urate is what we want.
Urea/"BUN" is a secondary or indirect measure of protein levels; it effectively is a measure of a toxic by-product from protein metabolism.
Your albumin or total serum protein levels are the primary or direct measures of protein levels, and quite frankly are the only numbers that count in terms of determining whether your protein levels are adequate. If these are within the normal range, then you are fine. In fact, low urea with normal protein levels is really the ideal.
The reason why urea/BUN is even measured is usually to check that it isn't too high, or as a secondary confirmation of low protein levels.
HTH :)
and yes, i'd avoid even telling the doc that you're vegan unless you can avoid doing it for the reason mentioned above. however well intentioned they are the tendency is for them to try to scare you into adding more quality 'protein' to your diet.
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