I love my cats and I imagine I will always have cats, but if we as vegans are trying to get rid of the factory farms and the horrid slaughter of animals etc, which we/I do, then my dilemma is, once noone eats meat and no animals are killed for meat, what would I feed my cat?
They are carnivores so I don't believe that a vegan diet is anymore healthy for them than a meat eating one is for me?
Or do we think that there will always be butchers and meat from farms as apposed to factory farms?
A visionary animal communicator that I know sees a world where animals have evolved beyond eating each other and live in harmony. That would be nice but we are still a long way away from that I think.
I am very clear that I am vegan, I am very clear that animals shouldn't be made slaves to humans and the there is no humane way of killing an animal (better than the torture of factory farms, yes, but still wrong). I am clear that we humans don't need meat, dairy, eggs and that it is bad for us.
I am not clear on how we share our lives with our domesticated carnivore family if we have to feed them.
Also, if we let them hunt for themselves (which mine could not anyway they are too placid and domesticated) then isn't that a more horrible death for the animals they hunt then it would be if we did it faster?
I have been mulling this over for ages and don't see a solution, other than not sharing our lives with carnivores, and that just doesn't sit well with me.
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Do you think that if 'you' are vegan but that you have cats who you feed a carnivores diet, then you are less vegan or a hypocrite?
Or is it a matter of balance and natures law, we should all eat what we are designed to eat.
Is there a risk of becoming dogmatic and extremist if we shun carnivores from our lives because of who they are? In history whenever someone tries to force someone be like them, to enforce their doctrine, it ends in bloodshed, think hitler, Christianity and the burning of witches, the list is endless.
I would like to be balanced in my thinking and not dogmatic or biased what is right for me. Do I have the right to question the natural order, Mother Nature. Scientists have been thinking they are smarter than Mother Nature for years and for the most part our ego is destroying the planet.
Hmmm... it's quite the dilemma
I am very spiritual actually, but not religious (as in I don't subscribe to the bible or any dogma or doctrine). I was brought up catholic though, my Mum and family are all catholic mum teaches at a Catholic school. I find all religions, cultures and spiritualities fascinating.
I have experienced and learnt about many of them, shamanism, wicca, hinduism, buddhism etc but at the end of the day I walk my own path and listen to my own intuition.
A vegan world of peace and harmony is definitely what I would hope for, but I am also a realist and live in the present so I don't want my to force what is not yet meant to be. I am totally up for seeing what my cats will eat from the plant world and I do often see if they will try different natural foods. My youngest cat loves carob and some of my smoothies. She seems to love healthier foods, so maybe I'll experiment a little more with her. My oldest girl though is more set in her ways I guess, but I will keep trying, I just don't want to force my beliefs onto them if it is not right for them.
There are also foods that are poisonous to cats that are fine for us, I guess I'll have to do more research on what not to feed them and then just try everything else and see if they like it.
i am also very casual about religion. religion can inspire the best in us or the worst depending on the preacher. but i do hope that peace and paradise is around the corner.
because we dont really know for sure what is meant to be i like to explore it. its cool that your cat loves carob and smoothies. with cats i try to think of foods that they can claw and knaw at and will digest easily. grapes might also be cool. i would love to know more about what kind of plant foods cats find palatable and fun. as far as nutrion goes i think like humans we would try to ensure a complete level of nutrition that would probably include supplementation of some sort.
as for poisonous foods i consider the strongest plants to be poisonous to small creatures and medicinal to large ones. kind of the bigger you are the level phytochmical effect you. so i would avoid strongly bitter, acrid or acidic foods. but i believe cats and dogs do like any human foods that include garlic as a flavour. though i wouldnt serve a cat a bowl of garlic cloves.
Really? How do you know God made them as Vegans first? Is that science, religion, opinion?
My cats don't eat kibble, just good quality wet food and cat grass, my oldest 17 yrs old was diabetic for a 1 year and a half, on 2 insulin shots per day of 9 units each time, I researched and changed her diet and got her diabetes under control. My research (for feline diabetes) showed that processed kibble is like feeding a human diabetic donuts. It worked too, the vet had a year to help her and did not succeed at all, they put her on diabetic kibble and her BG was all over the place. I then took it onto myself (after a lot of research) to test her BG at home, changed her diet and 4 mths later her blood glucose was perfect and she hasn't had to have an insulin shot in 8 mths now. I put her on a natural carvivores diet and she got well.
So to me that lends credance to the thought that it is her natural diet. Like we get well when we don't eat animal protein.
I would love it if they could evolve enough to a vegan diet but right now I don't think they are ready.
I think an animal will eat most kinds of diets if they are hungry but does that mean it is good for them to?
Don't know, the jury is still out on that one.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, all opinions are welcome, gives me more to ponder on.
i base the vegan comment on the state of earth when the lion layed with the lamb and didnt eat it. the bible says we are going back to that. sounds like veganism. if you believe in science, not god, that fine. but science(which isnt all knowing) thinks that we evolved from plant eaters to animal eaters. most meat eaters cling to that saying 'i didnt bite,claw, and tear my way to the top of the food chain just to go to the bottom.' as you can see evolution is flawed because it doesnt explain why humans get diseases from an animal diet. we really need to stop putting our whole lives in the hands of science. science should be explaining what works and suggesting new things that might work.
yes there are part foods out there that cant quite equal well rounded nutrition. but look around and see. beside that though, does your cat like bananas? the fact that you are vegan and on this website should mean that you are somewhat alternative thinking. so why not try out different plant foods and see if you cat likes any of them. if your cat were out in the wild it would not be able to hunt cows, pigs or fish. maybe birds or mice, but if it couldnt find those what would it do to survive. dont you think a cat would happily eat plant foods to survive in the absence of meat? and after a while on plant foods would the cat prefer them?
we are exploring revolutionary ideas and that great. veganism and 80/10/10 shouldnt be about a short term diet that ends with a return to flesh eating. if the whole world went vegan where what other changes would happen? if the animals in our lives were content living on plant foods they too might inspire other animals to live in peace together. as a vegan isnt this what you hope for?
I have seen dogs do well on natural vegan diets but cat are true carnivore IMO so it is a different case.
Shouldn't we eat by what our species are designed to eat?
but you must question what cats are really designed to eat? god made them as vegans first. then when earth became fallen the animals became fallen too. but when earth is restored to paradise they will be vegan again. my point is domesticated cats are trained to eat what is put in their dish. obviously they dont need to eat flesh so long as they get all the micro & macro nutrients they need. and it helps if it tastes good lol. someone said their cat ate corn on the cob. i had cats that ate moths and grasshoppers, they had explosive diarrhea, so since when are cats insectivores? the carnivore instinct is a temporary thing that we expect will end sometime soon. until then just think whether you want you cat to have the short lifespan of a carnivore diet or a long lifespan of a herbivore diet?
there are definately more health problems involved with fleshy diets. there are vegan cat foods that can supply needed nutrients(sorry it was taurine i meant earlier). parsley, garlic, seaweed, and fungi(yeast&mushrooms) are known sources of tyrosine. most people believe that taurine is not found in plants. but the truth is most people just are not aware of which plants. science has yet to discover all the sources out there. so when it comes to b12, taurine, vitamin d etc just understand that not all the sources are known.
i great idea is to switch out your cat's kibble for vegan kibble and see if the cat seems healtheir over time or not. if not you can always go back to regular kibble. but i also suspect that if a cat were introduced to the right foods it might take a liking to things like young coconut meat, avocado, or mushrooms. although my dream is to have a cat that eats tomatoes.
hey charisma,
great question! i think this is fundamental to veganism and christianity. i believe that as humanity returns to biblical(eden) veganism we will set the example for the animals. i believe all animals have a plant based optimum food and that when earth returns to eden/paradise that the carnivores will revert back to their proper food. granted that might not happen for wild carnivores until the return of christ. but i belive our domesticated carnivore pets should follow our example. there is vegan dog and cat food out there if you look for it. further as a vegan you take nutrition into consideration with you meals and so we should with our pets ensuring they have all they need from their vegan diet.
you may not be christian, thats fine, but if veganism is right for us why wouldnt it be right for our pets? there are some people who believe that historically carnivores ate plant foods that supplied their individual need. sure we have not hard evidence. but look at carnivores and you will see that they suffer from diseases because of their flesh eating habit. i.e. parasites, tumors, short lifespan. so what do cats need (beside the amino acid tyrosine) in their diet to stay properly nourished?